Best Draw in Black Edh
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Best draw available to black red?
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Source: https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/655917-best-draw-available-to-black-red
#1 Dec 25, 2015
I'm looking for the best, most efficient draw engines for black and red. Things that I already know/have included are necropotence, phyrexian arena, wheel of fortune, sign in blood, disciple of bolas, and staff of nin. Nin is kind of slow to get out, but it is consistent.
What other options are available to black and red that have either consistent, powerful, or efficient draw ability? Note:sensei's isn't really draw, it's just a hand extender
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#2 Dec 25, 2015
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#3 Dec 25, 2015
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#4 Dec 25, 2015
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#5 Dec 25, 2015
Confluence being instant is fantastic, too.
I personally have moved away from relying on creatures like Graveborn Muse and Bloodgift Demon because my friends have gotten to smart to let them sit around long enough to draw me much. At least enchantments are hard to remove, but dudes just die too fast at the tales where I play. If that's not the case where you're at then things like the Demon and Muse are fantastic.
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#6 Dec 25, 2015
Creatures are better for the most part, in my meta aura shards is run a lot, as are woodfall primus loops and the like, so my necropotence doesn't tend to last too long
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#7 Dec 25, 2015
Often times that's best. You really can't stop the initial exile off a resolved Necropotence short of a Stifle-like ability. I always figure if someone wants to kill my Necropotence after I've refilled my hand so I get my draw step back then that was a good trade
Outside of Necropotence (or Phyrexian Arena because it's so good) that's why I tend to favor the sorcery draws over creatures or Underworld Connections/Greed type effects; you get your cards and you move on. The sure thing usually wins out over the gamble with a long-term upside. YMMV there.
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#8 Dec 25, 2015
Whats YMMV? And yeah I think I'm going to consider running more wheel effects. What wheel effects are there other than wheel of fortune?
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#9 Dec 25, 2015
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#10 Dec 25, 2015
YMMV = Your Mileage May Vary, as in "this is mainly a matter of opinion."
Some other wheel effects in red include Magus of the Wheel, Reforge the Soul, Dragon Mage, Wheel of Fate, Molten Psyche, and Incendiary Command. Their playability varies based on the meta and deck, but in general I think Magus of the Wheel and Reforge the Soul are fine cards. There's also Knollspine Dragon, which can draw you a lot of cards in the right deck. Black gets a worse wheel effect in Dark Deal, too.
Red also gets "impulsive draw" (e.g. Act on Impulse), and the best cards for this are probably Outpost Siege, Chandra, Pyromaster, and Commune with Lava. If you're bouncing, cloning, or blinking then you also get Abbot of Keral Keep.
If you're really desperate, you can also use Staff of Nin, Font of Mythos, Howling Mine, and Temple Bell, but Phyrexian Arena and Dark Tutelage are better than any of these so they aren't worth playing in BR. There's also mana rocks that draw you cards, the best being Commander's Sphere, Mind Stone, and Hedron Archive. Black also has one of the best card draw spells in the game with Ad Nauseam, if you construct your deck's curve tightly enough that casting it won't kill you.
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#11 Dec 25, 2015
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#12 Dec 26, 2015
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#13 Dec 26, 2015
I didn't because at least in my opinion the best use for a Dark Confidant in EDH it to trade to a modern player for better Commander cards
That's not to say it's not a decent card, but expecting a 2/1 to go unmolested long enough to surpass Sign in Blood/Night's Whisper/Read the Bones or even Ancient Craving/Ambition's Cost just isn't that likely. There's probably some decks and some metas where it's an absolute bomb, but I'd wager there are a lot more where it is 2 mana and a card that nets you nothing in return. To top that off I have a feeling that a meta where players have the cash to run a Dark Confidant in EDH is probably a meta where Dark Confidant would be answered quickly enough to render it ineffective.
Conversely I've seen the often-disparaged Diabolic Revelation do really effective work in black decks running all the mana doublers. Between Cabal Coffers and Urborg, Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx, the doubling artifacts and Crypt Ghast/Nirkana Revenent/Magus of the Coffers I've seen some fairly gross Diabolic Rev casts. It's certainly not something one can shove into any deck in any meta, but I feel like I've seen more games where Rev is going to work out to my advantage than I have games where I want a Dark Confidant in hand.
It should be noted that locally the metas tend to feature a lot of token decks, so I see Night of Soul's Betrayal, Pestilence, and Pyrohemia-type cards a lot, all of which make Dark Confidant feel like he's almost always a bad choice. In another city or state he might well stick around six turns.
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#14 Dec 26, 2015
Moonlight Bargain is another great one; instant-speed, and let's you choose which cards you want to actually pay for picking up, plus it lets you stock your graveyard.
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#15 Dec 26, 2015
How can this thread exist without Skullclamp in it?
I am really partial to Wheel effects, and leveraging the graveyard as a hand extender. Black Red is really good at crapping your hand into the yard and drawing new cards, which is pretty important. New Chandra is going to be really nice as a reapeatable hand extender, and many Chandras are good.
Abbot of Keral Keep is probably good enough in a lot of decks.
Knollspine Dragon is pretty good.
I have always wanted to try Avaricious Dragon but haven't gotten there yet.
Solemn Simulacrum is pretty sick for this color combo too.
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#16 Dec 27, 2015
Yeah Bob wouldn't last very long haha, rattlesnake marath is a prominant deck at my table, as are other ping strategies. As far as budget goes, bob is pretty in budget for the decks that I'm sitting with. Gaea's craddle and all that stuff.
How many draw effects do you guys think is a good amount for commander? Usually I tend to run about 11-13 draw sources, with about half of them being repeatable.
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#17 Dec 27, 2015
I'm surprised with the other howling mine effects that no one has mentioned spiteful visions. If you're running disciple of bolas as a large one shot, it makes me think that you're going for the late game mana doubling game (on turn 4, he's not the greatest, but turn 6+ with a large fatty reanimated or stolen, he gets bonkers, so that's my logic there), so why not consider baleful force? He does cost 8, but by the time he's made it to the next person's upkeep, he's replaced himself and if he makes it another, he's card advantage. He won't last long, but by thunder he'll ramp up quick!
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#18 Dec 27, 2015
How many draw sources you need to run depends highly on what you want to accomplish, and what other ways you achieve card advantage. If you run a lot of 2-for-1 type critters (ex. Eternal Witness) it can be OK to skimp on draw spells a little. Similarly, in many decks you'll play from the graveyard so much you don't need to spend a lot of time drawing cards.
Whether your commander creates card advantage is another thing to factor in.
Where they fall on your curve can be pretty important for managing your manabase as well.
Bottom line: It varies a lot.
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#19 Dec 28, 2015
Coercive Portal
In a controlling deck, this mostly just gives you an extra card every turn. And when everyone decides to team up against one player's board state, it will wipe everything, which isn't bad for a color combo that has trouble with enchantments.
If you are more of an aggro deck, this probably isn't the best choice. Then I would look at something like Disciple of Bolas.
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The New World fell not to a sword but to a meme.
#20 Dec 30, 2015
Have you considered Spiteful Visions? It's an excellent card to balance out a game. All those jerks (me) who abuse card draw takes bunches of damage, and all those poor guys who can't keep up get a free phyrexian arena (thus de-valuing card draw even more).
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